shoots-straight
Well-known member
Has there ever been a documented case where Bison transmitted Brucellosis to cattle?
Armed Threats on Bison?
- Thread starter katqanna
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Has there ever been a documented case where Bison transmitted Brucellosis to cattle?
So if you were a landowner and made money off of your land to feed your children and some guy named mtmiller says it's your responsibility to feed the bison you would be fine with that even though your children would starve because of it?
You never said anything about brucellosis. We are discussing what you said.
You said landowners have a responsibility to let wildlife onto their property. That means you think they should not fence them out.
What you said is in black and white.
I must warn you that mtmiller will give you shit about your use of the word "there".
I don't care about that. People who post about grammar are usually losing the argument.
I care more about if you are including bison in this statement.
Musket Man
New member
Buffalo cant jump. lol. Deer and elk do damage in some places too if there are to many.
katqanna
Well-known member
I see while I was off at the annual PLWA meeting and the celebration at Three Forks y'all were getting into all kinds of issues here. BTW, I man up in a size 6/7 dress size.
First bison have dual classification here in Montana. If they are from captive herds, they are livestock. If they come from YNP wild herds they are wildlife. Now the American Prairie Reserve wanted to get bison on the landscape in central Montana, so to bypass all the political BS that has been going on for decades they bought land next to public lands and to bypass the brucelloisis issue they bought bison from Wind Cave National Park and The Nature Conservancy of South Dakota, Elk Island National Park in Alberta, Canada. Now, according to MT law, those bison are technically a captive herd, therefore they are livestock (tags in the ear), even though they are free range (within their area) as wild as they can be. This is why some of the anti bison legislation this last legislative session was trying to stop APR or anyone else with a livestock designation from being able to release them as wildlife later. Because APR has said if we get wild bison introduced to central Montana, they would remove their fences for the herds to mix adding to the wild herd.
CR Rathbone does state wildlife on the landscape and a certain amount of damage from wildlife is to be expected, BUT bison have not been allowed to be wildlife in that capacity, so I am sure the applicability of bison would be taken to court. There have been NGO's and non-profits that have that have helped residents just outside of Yellowstone that wanted bison fencing to receive it free and they have offered the same up in central Montana. With that said, I do not advocate bison on public lands in central Montana in a totally wild manner without some management measures that would prevent them from going on to private lands initially. I think that is a fair concession during what some might call a pilot period, at least, so we can access how things will work out. It may need to remain permanent or have private land fenced, as in fence out laws from cattle. But, we are dealing with public lands issue which wildlife have a right to.
I know this is a controversial subject and there are a lot of fears on the ag/rancher side, but there needs to be dialogue to get past the polarization. Arthur Schopenhauer stated, "All truth passes through three stages: 1st it is ridiculed, 2nd it is violently opposed, 3rd it is accepted as being self-evident."
We are clearly in the 2nd stage now. Which brings me to my update for Nemont. Yesterday I spoke directly with an FWP employee who confirmed armed protest threats from Ag/ranchers over the bison meeting. This morning I received a call from another who spoke with a FWP administrator in Helena that I am going to call Monday and verify a third FWP source stating the threat was of armed protests.
Since this was not a FWP meeting in a required process, it was an extra step FWP was taking to deal with dialogue, I am more understanding of their cancelling it in the face of an armed protest and potential violence. I do not like bullys and caving in to their threats (personal experience), my choice may have been different, but I can see the possible FWP perspective.
Nemont, you may not like the fact that threats were made. You may not like how it makes ag/ranchers look, but it happened. You can deflect that fact however you want. But physical and fiscal threats have been made - the meeting was cancelled. As a conservation hunter and wildlife advocate I have been open and bluntly honest, stating when bull$hit occurs from sportsmen and conservation stakeholders positions, like with the bloody conservation turf wars, with sporting groups that tried to shut me up about the elk brucellosis and Helena FWP connection. In fact, I am looking into a continuation of that from a conversation that came up today, some appear to still be trying to get this elk brucellosis lawsuit stopped. I find that some sportsmen that would put politics ahead of our scientific wildlife management and getting DOL/APHIS out of FWP shameful. But I am willing to acknowledge that it is occurring.
Now, where do we go from here? I want open dialogue and am going to pursue that. Do you want an open dialogue or are you content that it was cancelled?
First bison have dual classification here in Montana. If they are from captive herds, they are livestock. If they come from YNP wild herds they are wildlife. Now the American Prairie Reserve wanted to get bison on the landscape in central Montana, so to bypass all the political BS that has been going on for decades they bought land next to public lands and to bypass the brucelloisis issue they bought bison from Wind Cave National Park and The Nature Conservancy of South Dakota, Elk Island National Park in Alberta, Canada. Now, according to MT law, those bison are technically a captive herd, therefore they are livestock (tags in the ear), even though they are free range (within their area) as wild as they can be. This is why some of the anti bison legislation this last legislative session was trying to stop APR or anyone else with a livestock designation from being able to release them as wildlife later. Because APR has said if we get wild bison introduced to central Montana, they would remove their fences for the herds to mix adding to the wild herd.
CR Rathbone does state wildlife on the landscape and a certain amount of damage from wildlife is to be expected, BUT bison have not been allowed to be wildlife in that capacity, so I am sure the applicability of bison would be taken to court. There have been NGO's and non-profits that have that have helped residents just outside of Yellowstone that wanted bison fencing to receive it free and they have offered the same up in central Montana. With that said, I do not advocate bison on public lands in central Montana in a totally wild manner without some management measures that would prevent them from going on to private lands initially. I think that is a fair concession during what some might call a pilot period, at least, so we can access how things will work out. It may need to remain permanent or have private land fenced, as in fence out laws from cattle. But, we are dealing with public lands issue which wildlife have a right to.
I know this is a controversial subject and there are a lot of fears on the ag/rancher side, but there needs to be dialogue to get past the polarization. Arthur Schopenhauer stated, "All truth passes through three stages: 1st it is ridiculed, 2nd it is violently opposed, 3rd it is accepted as being self-evident."
We are clearly in the 2nd stage now. Which brings me to my update for Nemont. Yesterday I spoke directly with an FWP employee who confirmed armed protest threats from Ag/ranchers over the bison meeting. This morning I received a call from another who spoke with a FWP administrator in Helena that I am going to call Monday and verify a third FWP source stating the threat was of armed protests.
Since this was not a FWP meeting in a required process, it was an extra step FWP was taking to deal with dialogue, I am more understanding of their cancelling it in the face of an armed protest and potential violence. I do not like bullys and caving in to their threats (personal experience), my choice may have been different, but I can see the possible FWP perspective.
Nemont, you may not like the fact that threats were made. You may not like how it makes ag/ranchers look, but it happened. You can deflect that fact however you want. But physical and fiscal threats have been made - the meeting was cancelled. As a conservation hunter and wildlife advocate I have been open and bluntly honest, stating when bull$hit occurs from sportsmen and conservation stakeholders positions, like with the bloody conservation turf wars, with sporting groups that tried to shut me up about the elk brucellosis and Helena FWP connection. In fact, I am looking into a continuation of that from a conversation that came up today, some appear to still be trying to get this elk brucellosis lawsuit stopped. I find that some sportsmen that would put politics ahead of our scientific wildlife management and getting DOL/APHIS out of FWP shameful. But I am willing to acknowledge that it is occurring.
Now, where do we go from here? I want open dialogue and am going to pursue that. Do you want an open dialogue or are you content that it was cancelled?
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JoseCuervo
New member
I feel like I am reading commentary from third graders....
If only we had a picture of a jumping buffalo.... Could you imagine the mind blowing of Musket Man?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Now answer my questions.
JoseCuervo
New member
Why is the rancher feeing his children the grass that bison eat?
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Cattle can and do go on other peoples property and graze. What's the difference?
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shoots-straight
Well-known member
I edited that over 5 hrs ago, and so your bringing up why?
Where does this happen?
spook12
New member
JoseCuervo
New member
Don't forget about the 5th. No shame in evoking it.
No shame in putting down the 5th and not drinking it all at one time.... Might help remember his previous positions.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Pick a state? Hell I live in an urban setting and had 50 cattle show up one morning. My fence that separates me from a subdivision wasn't up. There's no recourse for damage.
So do you think the public should have rights to access their lands? Do you think Wildlife should have rights to that land?
Has there ever been a documented case where Bison transmitted Brucellosis to cattle?
You're the one charging Randy money for his permits. You should refund his money and apologize.
Great. I'm going to buy 2000 cattle and graze them on Jose's land.
Jose,
I'll be down in about a week.
Musket Man
New member
Have you ever owned a buffalo?
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