Dealing with Outfitter "Broken" Promises

PaJay 1962

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Four of us booked a guided Wilderness Elk Hunt in the Thorofare region of Wyoming 2 years ago. The outfitter had good references, and after speaking with the outfitter about his camp, equipment, success rate, etc. we were sold on the hunt. The outfitter stated that he had 2 camps separated by about a 1.5 hour horseback ride. Both camps could accommodate 6 people, and since we had a group of 4 people, we would have one camp to ourselves with our guides as he wouldn't put anyone in with us. He assured us that there were plenty of drainages to hunt, and that the camps were far enough apart that there would be no interference. That sold us and we booked the hunt, and put the money away for 2 years to pay for it (we're not rich people). We hunted last month with the outfitter.

We met with the outfitter the day before the hunt, and he informs us that there was a "wolf" problem at the upper camp, and the group hunting there last week did not do well. He said that we would all be hunting out of the one camp (12 hunters), but there was plenty of room. We get to camp and it seemed like a nice setup with the canvas tents with stoves in each, but no wood. We ended up cutting wood for our tents each day. Each day we rode out on our horses, and I noticed my horse had no energy (we had different horse every other day). On the 3rd day the guides start yelling that the wrangler isn't doing anything around the place and hasn't fed the horses yet, as all the grain bags were still in the cache. Tired horse problem now explained! Various people were tossed from their horses during the week, with one guy getting thrown on the 2nd morning and had to sit out the rest of the hunt due to what was surmised as cracked ribs. Our guide commented that NO ONE should have been riding that horse as he was wild, yet the following day, horse C-1 was saddled up for another hunter!

We hunted for 6 days, and all the efforts yielded one elk for 12 guys. Each day there was a long discussion as to which guide was going where, and with only 6 drainages, each was hit every day of the hunt. Elk were few and far between, with most groups not seeing any elk most days. As we got to know our guides better, information flowed more throughout the week, and a few of our guides told us that there wasn't a wolf problem, but a personnel problem. Apparently the wrangler walked out on him during the previous hunt (not sure why).

I've been on a lot of hunts, and I know that the odds of coming home empty handed are high, it's hunting. However, promises were made (of course NOT in the contract). Without going into a lot more details, here are the main promises broken, and I'd like to know how you would handle it.
- 12 guys in one camp
- Equipment was shoddy - leaking tents, lanterns not working
- No hot water for washing up
- No wood in tents
- dirt floors in tents with water running into the tents during the rain
- Extreme amount of walking involved (told us that our 70 year old friend would have not problem on the hunt as he would only have to tie up the horse and walk 30 yards to sit and glass). Not a problem for us, but our friend and two other elderly gentlemen in camp had issues.

Suggestions?
 
Report the outfitter to the appropriate agency / association with oversight, then move on.

Spend some time on this forum and listening to / watching Big Fin's many informative podcasts, videos, and other helpful presentations to learn how to hunt on your own ... if you have the time and energy to do that.

Otherwise if you still want to hunt elk with help, do much more homework and research into whomever you choose as an outfitter.
 
Do as Straight Arrow mentioned or name said outfitter in the title of this thread along with your experience. Those who search him will get your experience mingled with other reviews that are out there. Now if the outfitter tries to make it right with you somehow I wouldn't try and slander his name on the World wide web. Just my opinion.
 
I would guess nothing that isnt on paper would matter much to anyone....outfitters are in it for the money. There wouldn't be so many of them if the business was not profitable.
 
I didn't name him for that very reason - I want to talk with him about it after the season to see if something can be done. If not, then he'll be named along with my experience (just giving the facts), and people can draw their own conclusions.

As for DIY, I do it a lot, probably 50% of my western hunts. This hunt is the result of my older friend saying it would probably be his last elk hunt due to age, so he asked if I would go along. I wish it could have been a better experience for his last elk hunt, but I'll see if I can convince him for another one as long as he's physically able so he doesn't end his elk hunting on a "low note"!
 
Wont do any good to contact the outfitter board, its a kangaroo court as a best case. They rarely and I mean rarely punish an outfitter like this, its to the point someone almost has to die before anything is done.

What it sounds like to me is typical of the last group of hunters in that country. There wasn't a wolf problem, there was an area that had been shot out by the first groups of hunters problem. Success on later hunts drops like a rock, in particular on years like this with relatively little snow and warm weather.

Sorry about your experience...or lack there-of.
 
Lots of recent reviews of how bad the elk hunting is in the Thorofare area. Grizzlies and Wolves seem the get the most credit. If its any consolation, your not alone.
 
Sorry about your experience. Not much you can do but report factually your recollection of what was described, what was promised and what was in the contract (those are 3 different thing at times). Avoid editorializing since that gets into opinion rather than recollection. For example, whether you are Richie Rich and could cut the check by skipping a weekend of eating out at the finest eatery or you saved two years is not that relevant to me. A screw job is a screw job no matter ability to pay for the screwing.

If considering hiring an outfitter/guide in the future then ask for references from the past three years and to include successful and unsuccessful hunters. You may be given the number to their brother-in-law and drinking buddy but if the outfitter had 12 guys in one camp then 10 to 20 references should have been a chip shot for a good outfitter. Some google searching on the names and the phone numbers you are provided prior to calling can help you get a feel for if the hunters are shills rather than real hunters.

Again sorry about your experience. I have hired a guide once because had to (AK goat), once to get access to some prime mule deer habitat (CO), once when wanted access to mountain horses for a rut mule deer hunt (WY) and once in AZ when wanted to learn about glassing for Coues deer. Enjoyed the Coues guide so much hired him again when I got another late December rut tag.

I have hunted without a guide dozens of times and about 1/3 of those with a family member and the rest solo. Almost always on BLM or Forest Service lands. I belong to Huntin' Fool and 9 times out of 10 I get some very useful information about a tag I drew by calling other Hunting' Fool members who previously drew the same tag. I rarely hunt the same unit more than once due to mostly drawing non-resident tags that have tough odds to draw. Scouting is usually not an option so the intel from prior hunters is very useful.

Whatever method you use for your next adventure out West, I will send good thoughts you have a great experience and put some meat in the freezer.
 
If all else fails try writing a letter to the local forest service office that issues the outfitters permit. It can't hurt
 
Business is business, and if you feel you that you were let down by the experience then let everyone else know so they may not book the same outfitter. Punched tag or not, it seems what you endured is worthy of a negative post with outfitters name attached.
 
Most certainly turn them into the FS and Board of outfitters. Nothing much may occur but it is a duty to report. Think of the poor folks booking this guy and getting the same treatment.
 
I prefer DIY hunts with family and friends, but a deep back country horseback WY Elk Hunt is on my shortlist of near future hunts. This hunt will be done with an outfitter.

I'd be interested to know who you hunted with as well?
 

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