Wilks brothers true colors are shining through.....

belly-deep said:

I didn't say that.

Go learn how to read. Then you can come back and have discussions with the adults.

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Back top personal insults. And you think that is how adults discuss things. Pretty funny.

I've proven my point with examples and maps. Anybody who hunts out West knows there are plenty of pieces of landlocked state/federal land that we can't access and it does not all get sold off to the surrounding landowner like you pretend happens.

You guys make all kinds of ridiculous statement and when people point out how incorrect they are you resort to personal trash talk. Very predictable.

I'd go and insult you and ask where you went to school but then I would be doing the same thing you are doing. I won't stoop to that level.

The funniest part of this whole thing is how upset folks are that these guys are building a fence and road on their property. You guys are running around like a bunch of middle easterners screaming "gihad" trying to start a war with anybody who disagrees with your extremist views. What are you going to do if nothing happens?

roadhunter said:

Back top personal insults. And you think that is how adults discuss things. Pretty funny.

I've proven my point with examples and maps. Anybody who hunts out West knows there are plenty of pieces of landlocked state/federal land that we can't access and it does not all get sold off to the surrounding landowner like you pretend happens.

You guys make all kinds of ridiculous statement and when people point out how incorrect they are you resort to personal trash talk. Very predictable.

I'd go and insult you and ask where you went to school but then I would be doing the same thing you are doing. I won't stoop to that level.

The funniest part of this whole thing is how upset folks are that these guys are building a fence and road on their property. You guys are running around like a bunch of middle easterners screaming "gihad" trying to start a war with anybody who disagrees with your extremist views. What are you going to do if nothing happens?

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Wow

jlmatthew said:

We got some sore losers on here

Sounds like folks got excited thinking they were catching the big bad landowners doing something bad, found out Santa isnt real because they didnt get the football they were hoping for from the BLM and now are crying like little kids that lost the game

Reminds me of Democrats.

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Funny stuff.

roadhunter, No kidding, there's landlocked state trust that hasn't been sold? Gee really?

That's amazing. Didn't know that. Thanks for telling us.

roadhunter said:

Back top personal insults. And you think that is how adults discuss things.


I'd go and insult you and ask where you went to school but then I would be doing the same thing you are doing. I won't stoop to that level.

The funniest part of this whole thing is how upset folks are that these guys are building a fence and road on their property. You guys are running around like a bunch of middle easterners screaming "gihad" trying to start a war with anybody who disagrees with your extremist views. What are you going to do if nothing happens?

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Now that's some funny stuff, right there.

Is that called stooping, or is there a more precise term?

Carry on .....

You guys are running around like a bunch of middle easterners screaming "gihad" trying to start a war with anybody who disagrees with your extremist views.

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Yes. Just like that. That's exactly how it is. When we scream it we spell it right though.

You keep calling the HuntTalkers here "extremist", but that's about where your arguments end.

It isn't blind correlation that in the state where the "extremists" care the most, we hunt the most, we hunt longer than the rest, we have damn good hunting, and the fishing is second to none. It is precisely because Montanans care so much that this is so, and will continue to be. Certainly not perfect, but better than the rest.

Montana is lucky to be in the circumstance of watching the rest of the west develop and change while we, in comparison, have developed much slower. We have seen the mistakes and factors that have led to reduced opportunity and quality of hunting and fishing experience in other western states, and we won't stand for them here. The filthy rich coming in and pushing the locals around, even if within the law (hovering helicopters, purposefully placing campers on landing strips, being poor stewards of the land, etc) is one of those factors.

If it turns out the Wilks are within the law, that does not exclude them from being poor neighbors and stewards of the land -Two things that "extremist" Montanans frown upon.

roadhunter said:

The funniest part of this whole thing is how upset folks are that these guys are building a fence and road on their property. You guys are running around like a bunch of middle easterners screaming "gihad" trying to start a war with anybody who disagrees with your extremist views. What are you going to do if nothing happens?

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I think you have demonstrated without a doubt, your level of reading comprehension puts you at a disadvantage in these discussions. You seemed to have not comprehended the many comments that these landowners can do whatever they want on their land. Not surprising on your part.

Anyhow, before I make my next post, "What size hat you wear?"

I'm getting one sized up here and with the effort it will take to put it togehter, I would like to make sure it's the proper size.

It's a familiar shape:

Are their any private organizations that would be willing to go in and check the BLM's findings or do we just have to believe what their serving up?

Past is prologue. Greenhorn is correct.

Big Fin said:

I think you have demonstrated without a doubt, your level of reading comprehension puts you at a disadvantage in these discussions. You seemed to have not comprehended the many comments that these landowners can do whatever they want on their land. Not surprising on your part.

Anyhow, before I make my next post, "What size hat you wear?"

I'm getting one sized up here and with the effort it will take to put it togehter, I would like to make sure it's the proper size.

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Please. Do you remember the last discussion we had where you and Ben explained how terrible it would be for the feds to charge fair market value for grazing leases. You were explaining how terrible it would be to tell lease holders that the free ride was over and Ben was explaining how giving wealthy landowners like the Wilks cheap grazing leases helps the local economy and increased GDP. All that is accomplished by giving wealthy landowners cheap federal grazing leases is making the already wealthy landowner even more wealthy.

Everybody gets all fired up about how many laws these guys are breaking and in the end BLM investigates and a whole lot of nothing happens. Must be disappointing for you guys to lose battle after battle.

I used to have a lot of respect for you and your show but the more that I have been around you learning how you and you buddies view things I am finding out just how extreme your views really are and how quite frankly you dont' share many of the same feelings as other hunters in this country. You guys hate pretty much everybody who hunts, pretty much everybody who doesn't hunt, Texans, wealthy people, non Montanans, people who use dogs to hunt bear and deer, people who hunt over bait, people who use crossbows, people who use lighted knocks, people who hunt high fence in Africa, etc, etc....... Then you wonder why nobody shares your opinion and you insult them and their intelligence if they don't agree with you.

That is why the discussions on other sites are so much different than on this site. This site is so focused on Montana politics that you completely overlook everything else that mainstream hunters are concerned with. If you want proof of this look no further than your own site counter. Looks like the most people on this site happened back in 2010. Dwindling interest in listening to a site focused on Montana politics and a bunch of extremist who hate just about all other hunters does not seem to be increasing your membership on hunt talk. Wonder why.

Feel free to insult my intelligence and reading comprehension all you want. It will only make you look bad by doing so. When you have to resort to personal insults during a discussion it is obvious that you would rather do that than discuss the real issue. When the leadership of this extreme group acts like this it reflects poorly on the entire group. Can you think of a well respected group or organization who's leader insults anyone's intelligence who does not agree with their extremist views?

Thanks for the entertainment.

Summitthunting said:

Are their any private organizations that would be willing to go in and check the BLM's findings or do we just have to believe what their serving up?

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That's the only way to get the unbiased truth. I think it will get real interesting when Randy hunts it this rifle season with his HD cameras. Wish I could see his face when he bumps the fence that cuts his opportunities by 300'.

Jack Jones, who worked with BLM for 35 years, the fencing guy I was referred to from Butte, just came in to Bozeman for a visit. We visited for a couple hours. I showed him the parcel of land involved, this thread and the pics, etc. He brought some other documents in to loan me and a book - The Closing of the Public Domain by E. Louise Peffer by the Stanford University Press. Jack had a section bookmarked and highlighted -

"By 1885, illegal fencing had become so general that Congress passed a law prohibiting fencing or the erection of any obstacle to the free passage of man or animal from place to place on the public domain. It gave authority to the president to take such measures as were necessary to enforce the law and to the Secretary of the Interior to press suits for the removal of the now illegal fences and obstacles. In 1886, President Cleveland, by proclamation, ordered the removal of all fences. Secretary Lamar immediately threatened prosecution if the removals were not carried out without delay. Unfortunately, he did not have a staff in the field large enough or always willing to enforce the President's order and the new law.

Secretary Lamar was in sympathy neither with the plight of the stockmen nor with the views of his predecessors and the Public Lands Commission in their judgement of the future usefulness of the remaining public lands: 'The miscalled arid regions of the country...are not arid in any true and comprehensive sense. They are the natural pastures of the continent...The assertion that great capital and combined organization are necessary to the utilization [of this land]...is without foundation. Equally untrue is the assertion that the land laws of this country do not apply to these regions and are not adapted to their conditions. The laws are made for the masses of the people and not for the privileged persons. They contemplate an aggregate of small holdings in the hands of a great number of occupants.' "

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Jack was telling me case after case, such as hunting up in Malta for birds on public lands. They had a map with them that showed the color designations for the lands. This guy comes driving down the road, stops and begins yelling at them to get off of his land. After he leaves, they are looking at the map again and point out the land was not private, but blue state land. Which irritated these guys and resulted in calls to the State, the Governor, DNRC and the Attorney General. They ended up creating the State Land Coalition with Jack Atcheson Sr as President and Jack Jones as Vice President. Their looking into the laws and forcing these issues with agencies who at first denied they could hunt those public lands and had access to them resulted in the 1991 HB 778 - Recreational Use of State School Trust Land. They have been fighting for our public lands ever since.

roadhunter said:

Please. Do you remember the last discussion we had where you and Ben explained how terrible it would be for the feds to charge fair market value for grazing leases. You were explaining how terrible it would be to tell lease holders that the free ride was over and Ben was explaining how giving wealthy landowners like the Wilks cheap grazing leases helps the local economy and increased GDP. All that is accomplished by giving wealthy landowners cheap federal grazing leases is making the already wealthy landowner even more wealthy.

Everybody gets all fired up about how many laws these guys are breaking and in the end BLM investigates and a whole lot of nothing happens. Must be disappointing for you guys to lose battle after battle.

I used to have a lot of respect for you and your show but the more that I have been around you learning how you and you buddies view things I am finding out just how extreme your views really are and how quite frankly you dont' share many of the same feelings as other hunters in this country. You guys hate pretty much everybody who hunts, pretty much everybody who doesn't hunt, Texans, wealthy people, non Montanans, people who use dogs to hunt bear and deer, people who hunt over bait, people who use crossbows, people who use lighted knocks, people who hunt high fence in Africa, etc, etc....... Then you wonder why nobody shares your opinion and you insult them and their intelligence if they don't agree with you.

That is why the discussions on other sites are so much different than on this site. This site is so focused on Montana politics that you completely overlook everything else that mainstream hunters are concerned with. If you want proof of this look no further than your own site counter. Looks like the most people on this site happened back in 2010. Dwindling interest in listening to a site focused on Montana politics and a bunch of extremist who hate just about all other hunters does not seem to be increasing your membership on hunt talk. Wonder why.

Feel free to insult my intelligence and reading comprehension all you want. It will only make you look bad by doing so. When you have to resort to personal insults during a discussion it is obvious that you would rather do that than discuss the real issue. When the leadership of this extreme group acts like this it reflects poorly on the entire group. Can you think of a well respected group or organization who's leader insults anyone's intelligence who does not agree with their extremist views?

Thanks for the entertainment.

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So, when you call people "extreme jihadists," when you fail to read what others have written; when you falsely re-state what others have written; or do not understand what was written, it is all the other guy's fault. Got it.

We have plenty of discourse on this site, about many issues. All of it is good airing of the laundry. I learn a lot from it. I hope others do, also.

I am careful as to when I chime in, as there are topics I don't know much about. A sure way to get my teeth handed to me would be to make some bold interjections when I am clueless. I've done that a time or two (or ten) and been "schooled" pretty good. It has taught me to make sure I know what I am talking about before I start typing on these more controversial topics. That is the danger in expressing opinions on a site when so many of these guys forget more over a morning coffee than I will probably learn in a year.

Most people here place political affiliations far below what is best for hunting, fishing, access, and conservation. Most are equal opportunity abusers when it comes to politicians and their theologies. There is little use for "the party line" around here.

Those who want to couch every issue in the context of Lib/Con, R/D, Left/Right, usually get frustrated here, or if they want to stay, they have a pretty thick skin. Thin skin and heavy political ideology can result in some serious road rash, and not just on this site.

If you think this thread topic and this issue at hand is only a Montana issue, you have not spent much time in hunting/access politics of WY, CO, UT....... There is a thread on this site from 2009/2010 about some BLM land where the same thing was tried, but CO Law prohibited us from flying in and hunting BLM land with our public tags. These issues are relevant to hunters in many states. This one just happens to be in MT.

BTW, here is the traffic, by state, on this site last month.

MT - 10.2%, CO - 8.5, CA - 7.4, TX - 5.9, WA - 4.8, ID - 4.5, UT - 4.2, AZ - 3.5, MN - 3.0, WI - 3.0%. I just checked my traffic stats. Way up since 2010. I bought the site in 2009, when there were 3,000 registered users from 2001-2009. I'm comfortable with the growth here.

This platform is not about bowing down to the self-appointed leaders of the New Western Order. Those types have plenty of money, often building their own sites to promote their agendas and their theologies. We don't need anymore of those platforms; enough already exist.

This platform is about giving a voice to a large group of people who have been doing a lot of the hunting, fishing, conserving, funding and volunteering to improve the state of wildlife in America. It is about giving a place for people to talk about the attempts to screw over the average hunter/angler by those who "have theirs" and now want "ours" (the public's). I can cite pages of examples just in my state of MT. Hunters/anglers in other states can provide the same.

If that is not what you want to have interspersed among some of the threads here, then it is probably not a good place to hang out. Can't please everyone. And I am not going to change this platform because you think those kind of discussions are extremist.

If you are looking a bunch of people who all agree and follow blindly, singing praises from the same hymn book, you probably won't find it here. There are very few people on this site who have not disagreed with others at one time or another, often many times. Yet, whether I agree or disagree with them, almost every person on this site would be welcome in my camp. They are informed, passionate, and committed to hunting and conservation, even if their views are different from mine.

The guys on this site happen to be some of the most informed on western hunting and access issues, so they are not going to be BS'd by the mantra from either side of the political spectrum. That results in some heated discussions at times, which is not a bad thing. It also causes the blowhards to leave after a while, frustrated that no matter how hard they yell, it doesn't change the facts at hand or the opinions of informed people.

As to respect for me and this show, due to your perception of "extreme views," I wish that was not the case. The views I present on the show, on this site, and anywhere I am asked to speak, don't change; and probably won't change.

I am an avid property rights advocate, which requires that I respect the rights of private property owners and the rights of the public and their collectively held property. A few see property rights as a one way street, where private property is expanded to usurp rights held collectively. It is hypocrisy to be a property rights advocate and only respect/protect property rights of some. If some view that as extreme, not much I can do about that.

You talk about others insulting, etc. Pot meet kettle. I've kind stood on the sidelines as you've made some really asinine comments; comments that are exactly what you complain about. I've had enough of it. Evidently you think that behavior is fine when you do it, but not when others do it. It's not helpful when anyone does it; you, me, or anyone.

It is not differing opinions that is a problem around here. It is hypocrisy and behavior such as you demonstrated in post #341. Debate issues with facts and information. Respect that others might disagree, even if you view them as "middle east jihad extremists." If you cannot have a discussion in that manner, this will be a difficult place for you.

Mostly, help others and contribute to the threads that provide benefit. That is the true benefit of this site. A lot of experienced guys sharing really good information. Some only want to involve themselves in the issues that stray toward political ideologies. They are loud and opinionated in those threads, yet provide nothing positive in the other threads that make up the majority of this site.

Back to the topic of the "New Western Order" and the peasants who are expected to stand in line and behave.

Roadhunter,
I am not a Montana resident, nor will I ever get a chance to hunt this area most likely. So I have only read this particular topic out of curiosity and to try and learn a bit about the battles that are taking place over public lands in the west.

I am most appreciative of the guys who are out there fighting for public land access (wingman, etc). Although this battle happens to be in MT, the next one might be in any state. It takes people like these guys to stand up for our rights...MY rights. Living a long ways from the Rocky Mtns, I cannot do much, but the guys who live there can and ARE doing something about it. They have my full support.

I am confused why you would criticize that? Why on earth wouldn't you be supportive of their efforts that may help you someday in gaining access to land you want to hunt? If you don't want to read about MT politics, it is pretty simple, don't click on this thread to save both yourself and the guys looking out for us some aggravation.

As for you guys who are looking into this matter, thank you. Thank you from an average guy and an average DIY hunter that someday may get a chance to hunt this property. As I said, it probably wont be me, but somewhere out there is a guy who is going to enjoy this property in the future who should be applauding your efforts!

wingman, like most of you on here you miss my point.....IF you were put in charge of access to the NBar, and you alone.....I bet you would not allow unfettered access by the public.....I have seen it to many times.... all of a sudden you are in charge of what is killed and what is not.... well, my old adage rings true," 100% of what you kill this year has no chance of being better next year"

Eric Albus said:

wingman, like most of you on here you miss my point.....IF you were put in charge of access to the NBar, and you alone.....I bet you would not allow unfettered access by the public.....I have seen it to many times.... all of a sudden you are in charge of what is killed and what is not.... well, my old adage rings true," 100% of what you kill this year has no chance of being better next year"

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I understood where you were going immediately on your first post of the subject. I think you are missing the point...I could care less what the Wilks MO is on their property. The problem is I believe they think they own the ELK and even more so when they reside on BLM.

I do not know them, so can't say as to how they feel about who owns the elk.

MNElkNut said:

Roadhunter,
I am not a Montana resident, nor will I ever get a chance to hunt this area most likely. So I have only read this particular topic out of curiosity and to try and learn a bit about the battles that are taking place over public lands in the west.

I am most appreciative of the guys who are out there fighting for public land access (wingman, etc). Although this battle happens to be in MT, the next one might be in any state. It takes people like these guys to stand up for our rights...MY rights. Living a long ways from the Rocky Mtns, I cannot do much, but the guys who live there can and ARE doing something about it. They have my full support.

I am confused why you would criticize that? Why on earth wouldn't you be supportive of their efforts that may help you someday in gaining access to land you want to hunt? If you don't want to read about MT politics, it is pretty simple, don't click on this thread to save both yourself and the guys looking out for us some aggravation.

As for you guys who are looking into this matter, thank you. Thank you from an average guy and an average DIY hunter that someday may get a chance to hunt this property. As I said, it probably wont be me, but somewhere out there is a guy who is going to enjoy this property in the future who should be applauding your efforts!

Click to expand...

Well said, and thanks Wingman for caring enough about something to try and keep it.

roadhunter said:

You guys hate pretty much everybody who hunts, pretty much everybody who doesn't hunt, Texans, wealthy people, non Montanans

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How wrong you are there, it's the polar opposite in my case, bearing in mind i don't even live in America all i have ever received from this site is constructive positive assistance when i have have requested it.
It even resulted in me finding a couple deer last time i was over, without the guy on here i doubt i would have succeeded.

All i will say is you don't want to end up like us in the UK, no public land hunting, period!
Keep protecting your rights and promoting public land hunting as you do, i take my hat off to you all.

Cheers

Richard