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MNHunter
12-06-2011, 08:15 AM
The 2012 - 2013 New Mexico Rules and Regulations are out. Big changes inside though I haven't been able to download it so if anyone does and can email it to me at minnesotahunter@gmail.com I'd appreciate it


http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/recreation/hunting/

Gunflint
12-06-2011, 08:27 AM
Let me know if I sent the right info.

DavidKeenan
12-06-2011, 08:41 AM
Great I hope the others get theirs out soon. I have some post it notes waiting to be thrown away.

MNHunter
12-06-2011, 09:39 AM
Thanks Gunflint. My work PC didnt like the file directky from the NM site

drthornton
12-06-2011, 10:43 AM
Other than sticking it to the Non-Res DIYer... tags look pretty similar to 2011. I did notice that there are no Pronghorn archery tags for 18 and 20 though.

I wonder if the extra license cost and drop in Tags will decrease the Non-Res applicants? It upsets me but I guess you have to pay to play. Maybe I'm beating a dead horse though.

npaden
12-06-2011, 10:44 AM
Hunters who are unsuccessful in the drawing are encouraged to keep their Game-hunting License and use it for hunting small game during open seasons. If requested at time of application, refunds will be offered for the Game-hunting License, but NOT the combination Game-hunting and Fishing License. Refunds will be issued in May.

I added the bold. So after all the stink with the hunting license being required, they are going to allow it to be refunded if you don't draw a tag? That seems crazy. Also seems like there is no way they are going to meet their budget because the only way they were going to make up for the big reduction in nonresident licenses sold was to sell all the mandatory hunting licenses.

Really scratching my head on this whole thing. I guess I'm a whiner, but my hunting opportunities are going to go way down next year. I guess I should be thankful that at least I've been lucky the last couple years to draw some tags there.

Oak
12-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Wow, that's interesting. I guess the next step they take is to add a preference point system and tell you that you can't earn a point if you request a license refund.

drthornton
12-06-2011, 11:55 AM
I wish they would start a bonus or pref point system.

Got a question about how the tags are distributed and if they made changes.
Last year the pronghorn unit I drew had more than the 10% tag allotment go to Non-Res/Non Guide. The extra tags evidently came from the under utilized Outfitter pool. Is that the same for 2012 or did I hear that those extra outfitter tags now go to the resident pool?

npaden
12-06-2011, 12:01 PM
Unused Outfitter pool tags now go to the resident pool.

That's a big change for me on the deer unit I hunt as in the past there were zero applicants under the outfitter pool for that unit and the entire 12% slid over to the nonguided nonresident pool.

So it's going from 22% last year to 6% this year in that unit for nonguided nonresidents.

Probably wasn't fair the way it was with 22%, but 6% is pretty bad now. My % draw odds are going to go from about 40% to a little under 10% if the same number of folks apply.

Zim
12-06-2011, 12:36 PM
I only wish my Illinois state land had a 6% unguided nonresident quota for deer! It was like 75% nonresident/25% resident this year. They basically open the floodgates here. Dam the NR's pounded it and it was ruined even before peak rut. Deer were either dead or extremely educated. Then they all run home once the damage is done, and I'm left with a crappy late rut shotgun permit which is by that point nothing more than a meat hunt.

I'm all for residents coming first, but it seems what is fair has little to do with the decision making for these states. It's all dictated by special interest groups. I wish my chances were 10% unguided in New Mexico, and I wish NR coming to Illinois were limited to 10% of public land opportunity, but I guess that would just make too much sense to ever get done.

MNHunter
12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
I added the bold. So after all the stink with the hunting license being required, they are going to allow it to be refunded if you don't draw a tag? That seems crazy. Also seems like there is no way they are going to meet their budget because the only way they were going to make up for the big reduction in nonresident licenses sold was to sell all the mandatory hunting licenses.

Really scratching my head on this whole thing. I guess I'm a whiner, but my hunting opportunities are going to go way down next year. I guess I should be thankful that at least I've been lucky the last couple years to draw some tags there.

Yeah, one of the lobby groups (can't recall which one) successfully got that amended and no, they will likely not meet their budget.

I noticed the oryx tags were cut again this year. Glad I drew when I did

WapitiBob
12-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Actually no lobby group got that amended. The Governor wouldn't sign the Bill without that concession, after the Bill had passed, so the head of the Game Commission agreed. He then asked his fellow Commissioners to uphold his promise to the Governor and they did so at the next Commission meeting.

MNHunter
12-06-2011, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the correction WapitiBob.

trevore
12-06-2011, 02:23 PM
Looks like the odds of drawing my preferred units is hovering around a 1.25% average. Wonderful. Sorry thing is they're not even "premier" units. Guess I'll give up on NM and just donate to CO. I gave up on my home state years ago. Costs here are friggin' ridiculous and only going to get worse with the oil leases

Don K
12-06-2011, 04:53 PM
The last thing NM needs is a pref point system..................

Oak
12-06-2011, 05:02 PM
The last thing NM needs is a pref point system..................
I agree. See this thread:

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?t=248152

The really big news (IMO) is that there are now 16 desert bighorn tags in 6 areas, up from 1 tag total last year. Lots of hard work to recover the populations and get them delisted has come to fruition.

Smoked
12-06-2011, 06:30 PM
I live here in NM and I love how the draw is random, however I do think that some things need to have a point system in place. All Ibex tags need to be a preference point system, the once and a life time oryx hunt needs to be a preference point system especially since they have so many other opportunities to draw an oryx tag. The once and life time elk hunt up in the Valle Vidal needs to be a point system. I have put in for my once and lifetime oryx hunt for 15 years and have yet to draw. But every year i know tons of people who put in for the first time and draw. So I am all for the random draw every year but like i said some things do need to have a point system in place.

Also, I do have to say that not allowing non-residence to draw a cow elk permit is garbage. As a resident of New Mexico it is so easy to get a cow elk tag that they should allow non-residents to draw a cow tag.

MNHunter
12-06-2011, 07:14 PM
A pref point system wouldnt help anyone when it comes to super scare resources, in thiscase ibex oryx and sheep. Too few tags to cycle people through so after a few years u shut out everyone without max points. Point systems can work but the more scare the resource, the more likely the point system will do no good.

WapitiBob
12-06-2011, 09:10 PM
A pref point system wouldnt help anyone when it comes to super scare resources, in thiscase ibex oryx and sheep. Too few tags to cycle people through so after a few years u shut out everyone without max points. Point systems can work but the more scare the resource, the more likely the point system will do no good.

I agree 100%. Points will not work if the tag numbers are too small to cycle the people through the system.

dan.kirkpatrick
12-06-2011, 09:42 PM
I do not think there should be a 10% allocation of tags to the outfitters,,,its not right beins that these are the states animals,,,hunting tags should be on a equal draw weather your a diy or gonna hire a guide,,,6% going to diy is B S.new mexico will not get my money now with super low odds ,full up front fee and a hunting licenceof $65 to boot.

NM50CAL
12-06-2011, 10:31 PM
As a resident that has not drawn cow elk in the last 3 years, I'm glad that NM is giving residents more tags. Hope I get one. Now with that said, I remember when NM tried a semi point system and it didn't work. If you entered the draw so many years (3 I think) and didn't draw you were up next automatically.

Here is a thought, If the outfitters are only getting a 10% allocation of the tags as per dan.k, what is going to happen to all those animals? Answer, the other residents who have drawn will get a chance to harvest. I am in support of that.

With regard to the refund or no refund. How gives a crap, it is all electronic anyway.

drthornton
12-06-2011, 11:22 PM
As a resident that has not drawn cow elk in the last 3 years, I'm glad that NM is giving residents more tags.

Of course you are...Heaven forbid a New Mexico resident not to kill an elk in 3 years...It's your god given right, given that non residents tag fees pay for the large portion of your Wildlife budget, which without you would not have an Elk herd to kill.

If you want to kill a cow, drive a couple hundred miles to CO, they have the biggest herd anywhere. I'm sure they would be happy to have you....Tag is $354.

npaden
12-06-2011, 11:34 PM
There were already leftover cow elk tags in several units in New Mexico under the old system. If you didn't draw a cow tag in 3 years you might want to apply in a different unit, several would be guaranteed draws even with your 3rd choice.

MNHunter
12-07-2011, 09:11 AM
If you really want to hunt in NM you can, especially as a R. It may not be the Gila but there are left over tags every year there. Too many NM sportsmen seem to think they need a Gila elk tag or a 2B deer tag to go hunting. They need to get rid of the LO tags and more R will be able to hunt.

Good luck in the draws this year

Smoked
12-07-2011, 09:42 AM
If you really want to hunt in NM you can, especially as a R. It may not be the Gila but there are left over tags every year there. Too many NM sportsmen seem to think they need a Gila elk tag or a 2B deer tag to go hunting. They need to get rid of the LO tags and more R will be able to hunt.

Good luck in the draws this year

You are exactly right about that, most residents that I know that don't ever draw are putting in for Valle Vidal and the Gila units. The frustrating part for residents I think is that up until about 15 years ago most units in NM were relatively easy to draw. Obviously an increase in people putting in and the idea that you can only shoot monster bulls is by drawing a gila tag. The number 3 bull in the state of NM came out of a unit that is the easiest unit to draw a tag. I used to hunt unit 15 all the time but when i went 4 years without drawing a tag I switched to a unit that was relatively easy to draw and have drawn a bull tag and harvested a bull for the last 4 years. 3 of the 4 bulls are small but i did manage to find one that ended up scoring 320. So even in less desired units you can still find some nice bulls. The way the draw is set up there is no reason to not ever draw a tag in NM, you can put your first two choices as prime units and then put your third choice for a less desired unit and go hunting every year.

Same thing goes for non-residents as well, if you really want to hunt NM you can. If you don't draw then you can buy a landowner tag. And if you still want to hunt public land then you can buy a unit wide ranch tag and not only be able to hunt the ranch but you can also hunt public land as well.

noharleyyet
12-07-2011, 10:10 AM
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2012/2012BIgGame.pdf

from; http://www.huntthewest.com/2011/NMregs.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HuntTheWest+%28Hunt+the+West% 29



New Mexico 2012 Regulations Available
December 7, 2011.

Application season has begun. Time to start plan, fantasizing, and forking over fees.

The 2012 New Mexico big game regs are now available online.

There are major changes in New Mexico this year, largely as the result of a major grass roots anti-non-resident push led by the New Mexico Wildlife Federation.

Key changes:

-Guided non-resident quota reduced from 12% to 10%.

-Non-guided non-resident quota reduced from 10% to 6%.

-There is a new requirement this year that you must purchase a refundable hunting --license when applying. The license is $65 for non-residents.

-Pretty much all of the applications for limited big game licenses (including deer, oryx, -elk, antelope, sheep, etc.) are not due until March 28 this year.

-Paper applications are no longer accepted.

Opportunity in New Mexico has definitely been diminished. But it's still an irresistable place to apply in many ways.

mhkowalski
12-07-2011, 12:18 PM
As a resident, I have been consistently been able to hunt Elk in NM the last several years by putting in for cow hunts in less desirable hunts as 2nd and 3rd choices. This past hunting season I drew nothing, but that's how it goes. Instead I went to Colorado. As far as I can tell there were no left over elk hunts (bulls or cows) this past season. Plenty of leftover deer tags. Npaden where did you get this information?

npaden
12-07-2011, 12:31 PM
As a resident, I have been consistently been able to hunt Elk in NM the last several years by putting in for cow hunts in less desirable hunts as 2nd and 3rd choices. This past hunting season I drew nothing, but that's how it goes. Instead I went to Colorado. As far as I can tell there were no left over elk hunts (bulls or cows) this past season. Plenty of leftover deer tags. Npaden where did you get this information?

I actually just assumed, I hadn't actually checked 2011 but know there have always been leftovers in the past.

I just checked and there was only 1 unit with leftover elk tags this year. ELK 1-1-373 = Urraca WMA cow elk rifle tag November 5-9. I actually hunted the Bull tag just before that this year in Urraca and was successful.

The Quota was 15 on that tag and there were 10 tags awarded, 2 first choice, 6 second choice and 2 third choice.

Smoked
12-07-2011, 02:38 PM
I actually just assumed, I hadn't actually checked 2011 but know there have always been leftovers in the past.

I just checked and there was only 1 unit with leftover elk tags this year. ELK 1-1-373 = Urraca WMA cow elk rifle tag November 5-9. I actually hunted the Bull tag just before that this year in Urraca and was successful.

The Quota was 15 on that tag and there were 10 tags awarded, 2 first choice, 6 second choice and 2 third choice.

The only leftover elk tags this year was for unit 52 mobility impaired. If you got your information from the drawing odds they only show 1st 2nd and 3rd choice, whatever tags were left over were probably rewarded to the guys who put down a 4th choice. If you log into your account it shows what tags were leftover. Some years they don't have any leftover tags and other years they have a bunch. A couple years ago they would open up a first come first serve on some cow tags but it looks like they are reserving those cow tags for the youth now.

npaden
12-07-2011, 06:33 PM
I did notice some 4th choice showing up on the drawing odds list. It actually showed 7 forth choice applicants on that tag.

mixedbag
12-08-2011, 04:53 AM
I'll sit on the sidelines as far as NM goes.They don't seem to want my diy money for their economy.draw odds will be slim.I hope the new system costs them alot of money so they make changes again.The outfitter and LO tags seem pretty ridiculous there.no problem withresidents getting a little better odds.Just alot of other states with better options for me.I would probably consider a chance at it if the draw was in Jan. like Wy. and I would know where I stand ahead of some other states draws

NM50CAL
12-09-2011, 03:32 PM
Just for the record. I have tried mixing up my units. I do not waste a draw opp. on Valle Vidal. And I am not interested in spending $1000.00+ on an Elk, so I don't go out of state. I have only one consistant unit as my first opition all three years and have mixed it up with other less promising units. I just haven't drawn. I have not chosen unit 34 because to my understanding CWD has been found in or around that unit and just did not want to take the chance.

I knew when I made my post, most if not all would have something to say about a resident being favored by the state he lives in to get a local hunt. Will it cause a negative financial impact? Probably. Will the draw odds revert back? Probably. Will there be any unused elk tags? NO.....

Smoked
12-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Just for the record. I have tried mixing up my units. I do not waste a draw opp. on Valle Vidal. And I am not interested in spending $1000.00+ on an Elk, so I don't go out of state. I have only one consistant unit as my first opition all three years and have mixed it up with other less promising units. I just haven't drawn. I have not chosen unit 34 because to my understanding CWD has been found in or around that unit and just did not want to take the chance.

I knew when I made my post, most if not all would have something to say about a resident being favored by the state he lives in to get a local hunt. Will it cause a negative financial impact? Probably. Will the draw odds revert back? Probably. Will there be any unused elk tags? NO.....

If you are worried about the CWD in 34 you can always take your head to a game and fish office and they will test your head for CWD. Unit 34 is awesome so don't not put in just because of CWD. And it is a very small number that have actually tested positive.

NM50CAL
12-15-2011, 03:51 PM
Thanks Smoked, maybe I'll give it a shot as my number 2 pick.