Using ATV on public lands

[wildlife414]

Our wildlife class is involved in a discussion about the use of ATV while hunting on public lands. Some of us agree that you should not be able to go off road with an ATV under any circumstance and others of us feel you should be able to leave the full sized vehicle roads and go on trails if the four wheeler will fit. Please share your opinion with us.

[83blazer]

I bought a Grizzly 2 years ago and have not been able to take it hunting. I live in California and the roads or trails in my woods don't allow ATV's. This is BS.:BLEEP: i agree that if there are existing trails then you should be able to use your atv but if there are no trails then you souldn't be able to.

Where I go hunting in the Los Angeles National Forest there are plenty of dirt roads that we (atv owners) can use but can't because of restricitions. It's funny how they can allow 4x4 trucks but they can't allow atv's on these same trails. I don't see the point. If 4x4 trucks can use the trails that lead off the road then why can't atv'c be used for the same reason. I wish we can use our atv's a lot more out here. I can only ride in certain areas but there is no hunting allowed. :BLEEP:

[mtmiller]

I bought a Grizzly 2 years ago and have not been able to take it hunting. I live in California and the roads or trails in my woods don't allow ATV's.

God, please forgive me, but hip-hip-hooray for California.;) :D

[gundog]

I vote with mtmiller.

[AkBearHunter]

Luckily, up here in we can ride just about anywhere with just a few restrictions. hip-hip-hooray for Alaska!

[mtmiller]

Luckily, up here in we can ride just about anywhere with just a few restrictions. hip-hip-hooray for Alaska!
Sounds like it works in AK, but down here there is much more pressure and in smaller areas.

BTW, I don't have a problem with 4-wheelers permitted to use all roads that are open for full-sized vehicular travel, but I won't lose any sleep if they are restricted either.

[AkBearHunter]

You say you don't have a problem with 4 wheelers permitted to use all roads that are open for full sized vehicular traffic, yet you jump with glee when they are not allowed. Isn't that a little 2 faced? No offense meant.
Most of Alaska is not easily accessible by anything other than aircraft or boat, of which I have no problem with either. Trouble is most people cannot afford to pay that kind of money every year and without 4 wheelers most people would have a very difficult time accessing good hunting country. Most people that hunt from atv's up here abide by the law but there are always those that will not and they give us all a bad name. Don't punish the many for the illegal actions of a few.

[shoots-straight]

The off Road rules state, that you can take your 4 wheeler anywhere that an existing road goes without regular seasonal or yearlong restrictions apply.
An existing road can and does mean a double track that existed before the law was wrote. Motor cycles and bikes can use single track or regular trails as long a restrictions aren't in effect.

This means that you can't take them off trail. I believe this applies to all Federal lands, which does include Alaska. The problem around here is that people are abusing the system and making their own roads with the 4-wheelers and it's costing all of us for the Forest Circus to reclaim them.

I predict that in the near future that even in Alaska that the Feds will clamp down on ATV use because it will have an impact on game populations.

[AkBearHunter]

Problem is with enforcement, there are not nearly enough officers to patrol all this country. I have never seen a wildlife protection agent out in the field and have met only 1 on the highway. Without enforcement there's no way to make people abide by the law that don't want to do so. I've seen 2 track rigs that weigh more than a ton literally tear up the land just to access a remote hunting spot away from other people. Argo's, 2 tracks, Nodwells, swamp buggies and other such vehicles are the ones I see doing the majority of the damage up here, not atv's.

[mtmiller]

You say you don't have a problem with 4 wheelers permitted to use all roads that are open for full sized vehicular traffic, yet you jump with glee when they are not allowed. Isn't that a little 2 faced? No offense meant.

Well I don't know if I jumped with glee. I just saw it as an opportunity to make a California funny.

As I have mentioned many times, if it is open to motorized vehicles, then I think quads should be able to use it as well. I don't like roads that are only open to quads, so I think it should go both ways. That being said, I don't have quad, so if they want to prohibit them, no hair off my ass.

I think most would agree, most of the illegal off-road activities (motorized) are from ATV's, at least on the public lands I help manage. Of course the fault is not of the ATV, but the butt-nugget guiding the rig. Obviously a few ignorant lazy asses can reflect badly on an entire group.

[Dangerous Dave]

I remember going on a blackpowder deer hunt on public land in Nevada with my brother. I didn't have a tag, but I would walk up on a peak and spot bucks for my bro and wave him in from a mile away and put him on a few now and then (don't know if this was legal or not -if not- oh well).
Anyway, at least TWICE every day an ATV rider would jam up the ridge and ask me, "Hey, what's goin' on? Seen any bucks?" I'd ignore them for as long as I could, and then would politely ask them to leave me alone. If any of them spotted my brother sneaking around in an opposite canyon, they'ed roar off and attempt to ask him the same thing!! I ain't making this up!! I could hear my brother cussing the guy out from nearly a mile away.
Long story short... ATV's don't belong on public land, especially where there aren't 4X4 roads and where trucks aren't allowed either.

[Ithaca 37]

In the topic with the same title in the Elk section I asked AKBearHunter , "What is the law in Alaska on riding ATVs off trail?"

Here's his answer: "There are only a few areas where you can't ride off trail and they are clearly marked. Most of Alaska is open to ride and the hunting regs tell you where you can and can't ride depending on which unit you hunt."
shoots-straight says: "The off Road rules state, that you can take your 4 wheeler anywhere that an existing road goes without regular seasonal or yearlong restrictions apply.
An existing road can and does mean a double track that existed before the law was wrote. Motor cycles and bikes can use single track or regular trails as long a restrictions aren't in effect.

This means that you can't take them off trail. I believe this applies to all Federal lands, which does include Alaska. "
Who is correct, AKBearHunter or shoots-straight?

[Moosie]

Thread = Can of worms

Someone opened it.....

My prediction is 5 pages minimum with someone calling someone an A$$hole by the 2nd page....

:D :D

[IdahoBugler]

Thread = Can of worms

Someone opened it.....

My prediction is 5 pages minimum with someone calling someone an A$$hole by the 2nd page....

:D :DMoosie -- You're an A$$hole. :D Looks like your wrong Moose-man only took the first page.

On the subject though, 4-wheelers have there place and should be used accordingly to the law. If they banned all 4-wheeler use on public land, I'd have no grief with it.

[83blazer]

mtmiller,
I agree with you on the fact that atv riders shouldn't be able to make new trails and yes there are some that mess things up for everyone else. My complaint or rant was that atv riders should be able to use roads that are being used for motorized vehicles. If a 4x4 truck can use it then why shouldn't atv riders be able to use it.

Now, if it's on a highway then of course they shouldn't allow atv riders to ride but if it's a dirt road or a trail used by 4x4's then I don't see why atv riders shouldn't be able to use them also.

What's fair is fair.

Also, I am not lazy. Sometimes we kill deer 5 or more miles from our truck. If somone with an atv can ride down to the nearest point from where we are at on a road then why shouldn't the atv help us carry it out. Here in Los Angeles national forest there are a lot of dirt roads closed. The santiago canyon road. It extends from the the 2 hwy and ends up in Little Rock. This road closure consists of over 50 miles that we used to be able to use on trucks. It is closed now. We hike in about 5 miles from the truck and if we kill a deer then we just try to get to the dirt road and use that to walk out to the trucks. Now if I could use my atv then I could easily pick up the deer and haul it out.

If anyone calls me lazy then you are more than welcomed to come out with me and I'll take you hunting. I'll bet anyone that you will be exhausted and you would wish for an atv to pick you up.

[Turbo]

My question to you is, why would you want to freeze your ace off road hunting on a 4 wheeler, when you could be in your nice cozy jacked up 4X4 truck?

[AkBearHunter]

In my opinion I think that atv's should be able to use existing roads and trails. I don't like it when people jump on their atv and just ride whereever the hell they want too. I have used mine a few times to recover moose that we have killed but other than that, I stick to the trails and walk when I go off trail. There are thousands of miles of trails here so people really don't have a reason to complain.

[Ithaca 37]

AK, There's a question for you in the other ATV thread in "Elk".

[shoots-straight]

AKBearHunter,

It sounds to me that your following the law they way it's written, (other than game retrieval). All the new law states is that you can't drive cross country.

Also I believe that quads are classified to be legal on all roads that other vehicles use if they are equiped with street legal lights. This doesn't include special area restrictions. I know of area's that quads are legal and full sized vehicles are not, but I don't know of any area's that are just un-legal for ATV use. Barring interstates and Hwys.

[AkBearHunter]

ATV's are not legal on public highways or paved roads in Alaska but that doesn't stop people from riding on it. In the area I hunt moose I am fully aware of where i can and can't ride a wheeler and we are allowed to go off trail unless it is posted saying that we can't. Like I said before, I don't take my wheeler off trail except for game retrieval and that has only been a few hundred yards at most from any trail. If I spot a moose thats farther than i'm willing to pack then I won't shot him, plain an simple.

[AkBearHunter]

AK, There's a question for you in the other ATV thread in "Elk".I already answered that question in another post in this thread. I don't concern myself with the rules in area's I don't ride or hunt using an atv. The hunting regs will tell you if you can or can't ride an atv in given units.

[83blazer]

I have a 2004 grizzly and it has lights and all but it is not street legal but a lot of 4x4 trucks are not street legal either. They can still use the 4x4 trails but I and others can not use our ATV's in these areas. I have asked the forest personnel why and they say because it is not an OHV area.

In the Los Angeles National Forest Atv's can not be used where 4x4 trails are used or any road that is legal for off-road use unless it is designated as an OHV area. If 4x4's or any other truck can use the dirt roads then ATV's should also be allowed to use them.

[Ithaca 37]

AK, shoots-. says: "It sounds to me that your following the law they way it's written, (other than game retrieval). All the new law states is that you can't drive cross country."

It sounds like you're breaking the law if you use an ATV for game retrievel off the road or trail. Right or wrong?

Here's the problem with allowing ATVs for game retrievel: Somebody shoots something and he and his buddies all jump on about 6 ATVs and claim they're only using them for "game retievel", even though they have rifles with them.. Next thing you know they have trails all over and the next ATV rider comes along and says, "Great, here's an established trail for me to ride on." Then he shoots something and gets his buddies to help him retrieve it off the "established" trail.

The fact is you can't trust ATV riders not to try to bend or break the laws and there's not enough money in the federal budget to hire all the enforcement officers needed to keep track of all the ATV riders. Best solution is to ban all ATVs from any hunting activity.

If you can't hunt without an ATV, stay home.

[AkBearHunter]

Wrong answer Ithaca 37, I am not breaking the law when I use my wheeler to retrieve downed game, I know the rules in my hunting area and I don't break them, regardless of what you might think. I'll be hunting from my Foreman next year for moose, I'll post a picture for you to enjoy of a nice bull laying next to my atv.

[Ithaca 37]

AK, shoots-straight says, "All the new law states is that you can't drive cross country." and you say it's OK to use an ATV in your hunting area for game retrievel, which would mean you'd have to travel cross country unless you had the game at a road or established trail for pick up. So I'm confused. Can anyone find the actual current law in Alaska concerning ATV use on public lands? Does the law concerning public land use of ATVs vary in different areas?

[AkBearHunter]

Funny, you don't mind quoting shoots-straight but you seem to think I don't know what i'm talking about. Does he live in Alaska? I've been doing this for over 14 years and abide by the law, if they say no more atv's off trail in my area then guess what, I walk. If your that curious about all this then read the hunting regs or find the info from the BLM website yourself. I think I've pretty much said what I need to say.

[BigHornRam]

Moosie,

Without Buzz, MD4Me, or Ten Bears jumping on this one, it's starting to like it will die out before page 3.

[Washington Hunter]

Can anyone find the actual current law in Alaska concerning ATV use on public lands? Does the law concerning public land use of ATVs vary in different areas?

I don't know about Alaska, but I do know that in Oregon, at least where my brother and I hunted in 2004, ATV's are legal ANYWHERE, trail or no trail. This was on BLM, and we were told this by the people at the local BLM office in that area. I'm not saying I agree with it, or that it's a good thing, but that's just the way it is, unless it has changed in the lasts 2 years.

[shoots-straight]

Yes, in the last 2 years there has been some big changes, it's the new off road Vehicle Rules, and they state clearly if anyone wishes to read them that on Federal lands, which include BLM you can't drive off Road, only on established roads and trails. Doesn't matter what state, Federal is Federal son whether it's Alaska or Rode Island if it's Federal land then cross country is illegal. On the subject of driving on rural roads goes it's state by state county by county. Here in Montana as long as it's street legal you can drive all rural roads. I dont' think that interstates are legal though, but lots of ATV's drive down HWY 93 right past county mounties and don't get pulled over so I'm assuming that US hwys are OK.

[AkBearHunter]

shoots-straight, please post a link where I can find that info. I have searched all morning and cannot find anything that refers to what you are saying. Thanks.

[Washington Hunter]

Try these:

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/final.pdf

I haven't read through all the information out there, but I still don't see where the BLM is being as restrictive as the forest service with ATV use.

[BigHornRam]

AKBH,

It may come as a shock to you, but Shoots Straight has been known to pull "facts" from his rear end from time to time.

[shoots-straight]

Big Mouth ewe,

Name one part of anything I've said on this thread that's not true.

Other than articles out of news papers your facts always are easy to poke holes in. Your arse is where you get your best references.

Read the links from Washington Hunter. Maybe you'll get an education. We all know you need one.

[BigHornRam]

Not sure if you are Shooting Straight on this thread or not, I'll let those who care do the research. Just firing you up so you'll share your "wisdom" with us on another thread. I see it worked! BTW when are you going to share some of your hunting pics with us?

[ringer]

Wonder why the National Forest office told me game retrieval off road was legal in Arizona. Guess they don't keep up with the latest federal law or just don't care.

[shoots-straight]

Hey Mutten Head,

Show up at the Ravalli County Fish and Wildlife meeting on Dec. 4th I bring a couple of my albums, Haven't developed any pics from this year because I got a new camera, but might just print some out on a paper for you.

[Moosie]

Moosie,

Without Buzz, MD4Me, or Ten Bears jumping on this one, it's starting to like it will die out before page 3.

It doesn't take much poop to bring the flys in..... Post will hit page 3 with No problem at all :D

[BigHornRam]

I'm calling this one Moosie. Put a fork in it....it's done. Official time of death 4:10 PM MST.

[loverboy]

You really have to watch where you use them, some get some uptight when they see you riding instead of walking.

[Wyodeerhunter]

lets get this to page 3....

[BigHornRam]

This thread is still moving a little........must be the dieing quivers.

[shoots-straight]

Hey Horney Ram,

Where were you on the 4th, I brought a couple of albums and printed this years harvest, you needed to see if I'm all talk. How come you didn't attend the final check station results and slide show?

[BigHornRam]

Shoot's Poorly,

Read the Tree Hugger thread in the C. I. section for your answer.

[Hntnhrd]

Maybe this will get it to three pages. HWY 93 is nothing I saw one a couple weeks ago going by the Krispy Kreme on reserve street in Missoula.

God I love those things when they are hot:D :D :D . UMMMMMMM

Sorry got off subject there for a minute.

[chequamegonguy]

I live in Wisconsin and 4 wheelers are not allowed on hunter walking trails. Only on marked 4 wheeler and snowmobile trails. Some of the people around here have ruined it for everybody. They get back in there and rip everything up so the forest service gates it or bulldozes a burm in front of the road..I dont think they should be allowed either. As a public land hunter, if 4 wheelers were allowed there wouldn't be as much land to hunt. Everybody with a wheeler would just drive down these walking trails and start putting up stands. A lot of the people that I have encountered in bow season are extremely lazy. Anyplace there is a road or a hunter walking trail, within 100 yards you will usually find a deer stand with a big pile of corn within about 15 yards of it. COMPLETE LAZINESS. The corn is a whole other story though.Wisconsin is in a big debate about baiting deer right now...
So anyways about the 4 wheelers, if they were allowed, being that I like to get as far back into the woods as I can to avoid other people, that would be nearly impossible for me to do....

[Nut]

You really have to watch where you use them, some get some uptight when they see you riding instead of walking.


I get uptight about them when they are on public lands and roadways where they are not allowed to be. I have seen a few incidents of this lately. There is no way to turn in any of the asses since they are not registered and licensed. I am sorry that there seems to be way more bad apples than good law abiding people. So starting the 1st of the year I am writing the powers that be to start having them get licensed so we can turn in the scum that mess it up for the ones who don't.

[lilbiggun]

theres alot of places up here that are regulated when it comes to ATV's. Take clearwater creek on the denali, absolutely no vehicles. or tangle lakes on denali, you can ride on trails but you cannot leave the trail with the machine (alot of cops in this area for bou), or take part of unit 20 on the taylor, certain times of the year you cannot use an ATV (or any off-road vehicle) for hunting.

For the most part, we are a very ATV friendly state, hell, we still have our rights (we can even buy a gun without asking permission). I use my 2 ATV's. Partly because I have to (my knees are shot) and mainly cuz its a riot. Its great going in 50-60miles and camping/hunting for a week or 2.

You dont like them, dont use them. I could care less. I will continue to use them.

[lilbiggun]

Main Entry: 1pub·lic
Pronunciation: 'p&-blik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English publique, from Anglo-French, from Latin publicus; akin to Latin populus people
1 a : exposed to general view : OPEN b : WELL-KNOWN, PROMINENT c : PERCEPTIBLE, MATERIAL
2 a : of, relating to, or affecting all the people or the whole area of a nation or state <public law> b : of or relating to a government c : of, relating to, or being in the service of the community or nation
3 a : of or relating to people in general : UNIVERSAL b : GENERAL, POPULAR
4 : of or relating to business or community interests as opposed to private affairs : SOCIAL
5 : devoted to the general or national welfare : HUMANITARIAN
6 a : accessible to or shared by all members of the community b : capitalized in shares that can be freely traded on the open market -- often used with go
7 : supported by public funds and private contributions rather than by income from commercials <public radio> <public television>
- pub·lic·ness noun


This is from websters dictionary on line and I still cant see anything that says ATV's are bad. Personnally I like 6A.

Federal land is different obviously. Feds do whatever they want. They may say you cant use ORV's but yet a hiker will trash the hell out of just as easy as an ATV.

I used to hike all the time and I have carried out garbage bags full of trash from other hikers.

[mtmiller]

Federal land is different obviously. Feds do whatever they want. They may say you cant use ORV's but yet a hiker will trash the hell out of just as easy as an ATV.

I assume by a hiker trashing, you are speaking entirely of littering? Littering is against the law wheather you are hiking, ATV'ing or riding horses. No place for it. When I think of ATV trashing, I think spread of noxious weeds, major surface disturbance, noice disturbance, wildlife disturbance, water quality issues, erosion problems....

Public land is no place for anyone littering and if it is a no OHV area, no place for AVT's either.

[noharleyyet]

So Miller, I take it you don't like the national TV ads that show em ripping thru the forest & zooming across streams? As in the case of many 'madison avenue' tactics, ethical product usage seems secondary to sensationalistic appeal.

Haven't we beat this one down to lack of enforcement due to lack of adequate #'s of enforcers?...or are you saying lack of specific prohibitive statutes?

[mtmiller]

So Miller, I take it you don't like the national TV ads that show em ripping thru the forest & zooming across streams? As in the case of many 'madison avenue' tactics, ethical product usage seems secondary to sensationalistic appeal.
Sensationalism is fine. If that sells quads, so be it. If someone sees it in a commercial and therefore thinks it is OK, they have more problems than any of us can solve.
Haven't we beat this one down to lack of enforcement due to lack of adequate #'s of enforcers?...or are you saying lack of specific prohibitive statutes?
Lack of prohibitive status. In some cases, yes. Was that the point of this post? Not at all.

Lack of enforcement due to lack of adequate enforcers? We could consider that for most illegal activities. We don't just allow drunk driving because we can only catch a fraction of those breaking the law. We don't allow illegal aliens because we don't have an adequate number of "enforcers". Woops, scratch that one.

lilgun said "if you don't like them, don't use em". Fair enough. I like 'em and use 'em for work. I would use them more if I have my own. Point is, and many have brought this up, use them legally or don't use them at all. To compare a hiker that may litter to a guy that uses an ATV illegally is nonsense. Both wrong, indesputable.

[lilbiggun]

So when a hiker trashes nature its different than a motorized vehicle? Its still trashed, dont care how it was done. I also agree that some pricks on ATV's should be shot. I did a sheep hunt one time and about 12 miles in we found were some guy or group actually carried in a case of beer, cuz all the cans were in the campfire (now thats a diehard). I was pissed, especially as I was digging through the firepit getting all the cans out.

If the state or feds say a certain area is offlimits, thats fine by me, I'll hunt on foot (I love tylonol). I use mine for transportation, not as a hunting platform. Hell, one of mine goes about 25mph and is full time 4wd, it gets me where I want to go.

This past fall, a group of us hiked to a cabin (about 6miles) for the weekend. By the time I got there my knees were so swollen, I almost had to split my jeans at the knees. thats why I have my machines. To me its more of a tool than a recreation vehicle.

[mtmiller]

If the state or feds say a certain area is offlimits, thats fine by me, I'll hunt on foot (I love tylonol).
Cool, we are all on the same page.

[Hayduke]

Lots of ATVs everywhere in southern Utah! They need to get a handle on them before there's nothing left!

Sorry for bringing an old topic up. :)

[Ten Bears]

I bet IT still has me blocked, but here's my $0.02 worth. There are trail systems well built and capable of supporting ATV travel and many should be open for ATV travel. There are other systems that can not and should not. I like to hunt with my ATV as a tool of my hunt. They make great packing tool for getting me deeper into the woods and my game back out. This fall illnesses kept me from making to many trips into the woods at all.

I'm pro ATV.